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Thread: polygon shadows

  1. #1

    Default polygon shadows

    G'day folks,

    I've noticed after converting models from skin to mesh and back to skin that (in LightRay3D) after a few times it darkens random polygons.
    Most noticeable in Radiant and in the game but sometimes one or more polys are noticeably darker in LR3D itself when converting the mesh back to skin.

    polyshadows1.jpg polyshadows2.jpg

    "Smoothing" often does nothing or it sometimes makes it worse.
    I've tried smoothing at the default 45.0 and even at 60.0
    Sometimes I select a few surround polys to smooth and sometime I select all, it doesn't really make any difference.

    The only semi-solution I've found is to keep converting back and forth then copy the model to my map folder and test in Radiant over and over.
    Somewhat of a Russian roulette.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated, cheers.... (here's looking at you, Zappa lol )

  2. #2


    I also have experienced that in LightRay. The models sometimes look darker depending on the angle you are looking at them from

    The best way I found to have good lighting in models is going to:
    Settings -> Environment and in the Scene Colors set Ambient color to white

    And when you see dark spots in a model in-game, I guess the reason is because you are using a shader with "rgbGen vertex" in a non-static model.
    I believe the general rule is using "rgbGen lightingSpherical" for dynamic/entity models and "rgbGen vertex" for static models

    To make the model a "stacic" model you need to edit the QUAKED settings in the .tik file so path starts with "static_" like this:
    /*QUAKED static_path_to_model (0 0 0) (0 0 0) (0 0 0)
    and here is some more info about the quaked settings

  3. #3


    Thanks for replying Zappa but unfortunately neither suggestion is relevant to this.
    It only happens after converting meshes for about the 4th or 5th time.

    All of my current (170) models are static with their own maps.
    All of their shaders are correct.

    As I said, it's a Russian roulette chance of this happening when converting the model mesh to skin.
    Nothing else has been changed yet almost each time I've converted the mesh, since it first changed, it has continued to change the model appearance with random dark polygons.

    Eventually it will come good again (if not slightly better) after converting skin to mesh and back to skin then copy the skd & skc to overwrite the previous versions, repack the pk3, place it in the "main" directory and compile the map yet again.

    I guess there is no quick fix.

    Most of my reasons to convert so often is me being anal and re-adjusting the UV mapping and / or scale of each model.
    While I have you here Zappa, is there a grid preference that will help make scaling to Radiant easier? It's such a hit or miss affair.

  4. #4


    I have never encountered that problem when making custom static models for the maps. I make all the necessary changes while the model is still a mesh and then when I'm done I convert it to a skin. But even when I had to make fixes where I need to convert it to mesh and skin repeatedly this problem did not happen.

    Maybe LightRay 3D created extra faces and vertexes when exporting. Try to weld all the vertexes in your model by selecting all of them, then chaging the value next to the 'Weld' button to '0.001' and then click it. That way it will weld any un-necessary vertexes and you can export it normaly.

    Or you could manualy weld the vertexes you think its necessary and then de-select the 'Force Verts' option when exporting.


  5. #5


    G'day Soares, thanks for your feedback.

    I do manually weld the verts, two-at-a-time at "2.00". I never knew of any other way.
    That is for each separate object of the model up to 1,000 polys.
    Many of my models have multiple textures for separate objects and some of my other models have over 1,000 polygons so they are divides into smaller pieces.
    I also remove any unnecessary verts by hitting the "Invalidate" button.

    This issue occurs without adding, welding or removing vertices or polygons. It is usually only visually occurring in game after rescaling or tweaking the mesh.
    Unfortunately I look back on previously made models and think "I can do better than that" so I have updated most of them, some several times over. lol

    edit: I will try de-selecting the 'Force Verts' option.

    Cheers mate.

  6. #6


    I always try to avoid editing a model directly in lightray. I usually use Blender to divide a model in multiple objects under 1k verts using the "separate by loose parts" tool.

    Anyways, you should try installing the update for LightRay 1.4 and the 1.5 beta that Ley0k shared on Discord some time ago (
    I just installed the 1.5 beta and it feels way better than the 1.4 version

    and about the grid preference and scaling to radiant
    I think the easiest way to do it is just editing the scale in the tik file
    and if you want to scale the model itself I would recommend doing it in Blender instead of lightray (the scale ratio in Blender 1:1 too)

    Also Happy new year!

  7. #7


    Cheers Zappa mate.
    I've recently thought to update LightRay to 1.5 as my installment of 1.4 needs re-registration about once a month. I don't know if that will help.
    I'm pretty sure I already have 1.5 in my MOH downloads folder but thank you for the link.

    As for the scaling, I meant the ideal LightRay grid size most compatible to Radiant grid size.
    For example, when I've made something exact to the LR3D grid, it falls somewhere between the Radiant grid lines even when the grid is set at "1" unit.
    When mapping it's easy to know how big your brush is with 64 units grid being equivalent to approximately a meter (or yard). However with LightRay it's a guessing game.
    The LightRay default grid is 16.0 which has 4 units x 4 units within the larger grid squares. It means absolutely nothing to anybody.

    LightRay grid size can be edited via the "Viewport Properties". I just thought/hoped that maybe someone has worked out what size to be more compatible with Radiant grid sizing.
    The tik file says the model scale is scale for MOHAA is 0.52 (16/30.5) and changing that would be easy, if you knew how far out your scaling is.
    It would be more practical to change the modeler program's grid size (just set and forget) so you know how big to draw each primitive object than to screw around with each tik file for each model.

    Math was never my strong point and at 60 years old I can't see that improving any time soon. lol

    Anyway, Happy New Year.

  8. #8


    Ok, as for scaling I think the default grid size of 16.0 is probably the best.
    In my infinite wisdom I changed the grid size to 10.0 some time ago when I attempted to get scaling right.
    I only reset it back to the default 16.0 whilst writing the above post.

    So, I've created a cube 8x8x8 units in LightRay (grid size 16.0).
    In Radiant that cube measured 67x67x67 units which is close enough * cough cough * to 64 units cubed.

    This tells us that the dark gridlines in LR3D is approximately 32 units in Radiant.... at the default "0.52" scale in the tik files.

  9. #9


    I also have the default grid size of 16.0
    But for me the ratio has always been 1:1.
    If I make a 32x32x32 cube in lightray, it will have the exact same size in radiant and in-game (with scale = 1.0 in the tik file)
    You don't have to use the 0.52 scale on lightray models. I believe that scale was only used on models exported from 3DSMax

  10. #10


    Ahh. Gotcha.

    Cheers mate.

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