Servers Using Bots !!!

[James]

I think that's a great idea Tode. I think Razor is still working on fixing up some minor things with the patch, then we can focus on fixing some stuff in the code.

[easymeat]

check out this response from admin on game tracker https://www.gametracker.com/forums/f...334#post409334 I know it's an old post but still, if they didn't care in 2006 why would they care now.

GAMETRACKER ADMIN Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 10928
If you report the server once and nothing was done, feel free to report it again. If you've reported it multiple times and nothing was done, move on. Thank you!

kind of says oh well tough shit we don't care

[Todesengel]

check out this response from admin on game tracker https://www.gametracker.com/forums/f...334#post409334 I know it's an old post but still, if they didn't care in 2006 why would they care now.



kind of says oh well tough shit we don't care

I am familiar with that post, I was in that thread originally too. It is the post I was thinking of when I wrote mine above. It's worse than you wrote just now though...

1) The person who posted that is an admin named "Burn". "Admin" is just their role on the forum.
2) The admin user "Burn" was registered in 2006... the actual post date is JULY of 2017!!
3) Merlin/Guardian is still running up a fake player count every single day up to and including today.

So yes, gametracker rankings are corrupt.

Since I do personally own a datacenter full of blades running hundreds of VM's... I've got half a mind to create a mohaa ranking site that is actually truthful and monitored... and because gametracker has done such a disservice to the mohaa community - I can afford to offer unlimited hosting to gameservers or whatever FOR FREE. Putting them out of business would make me smile.... sheesh.

[Moh-User]

I think there is every need to report & blacklist these servers who continiously use Bots to get high rankings on Game Tracker.
I think they should be dealt with accordingly, not only by Game Tracker but also by the mohaa community here. Why should they be allowed to do it ?
There are few good clans left in this game, who work hard keeping their servers active, friendly & clean.
As a Clan Owner i find it increasingly annoying to see these servers around abusing ranking etc ..
To add something to reborn itself to prevent bots sounds great if possible, but in the meantime these idiots need to know that the mohaa community do not welcome their 'Bot Servers'

Thank you all for your replies ...

#Keeping Mohaa alive!

[James]

I don't disagree with you, but the way I look at it (from a more global perspective...); who are we to justify who gets to host a server publicly? It's not a matter of right vs wrong, it's a matter of equality in my opinion... I definitely think if you don't follow rules there should be consequences; however "permanent blacklisting" in my opinion is a bit extreme.

I still agree with what Tode mentioned; also if we just prevent fake bots in Reborn period; then we can avoid all this at the root of the exploit. That would be the ideal work around.
The only thing is; I'm not sure if there is a way to tell a difference between a spawned fake player vs an actual game bot mod like jv_bots or even Ley0k's AI.

I still think it would be super badass if one day we can implement truly MP AI just like in many other games such as Q3 and CS/HL series... I think this would actually bring back a lot of life to the games because then empty servers can legitimately spawn MP AI and then actual players have someone to compete against.

[Purple Elephant1au]

My 2 cents

While I agree with others above that we shouldn't dictate how users run there server, we also do not force them to use reborn or thr masterserver. If they want to run bots to boost rankings then it is entirely up to them and they are allowed to do it on their own servers as they are the ones paying for them. However if they wish to utilise the masterserver we(ownemall) set up, then they have to oblige to certain rules.

While the idea of a blacklisting sounds good, the main disadvantages is that it will require trusted people to monitor those servers who have been flagged to become blacklisted, then evidence recorded against the server, in which all requires manual processing and interpretation. This will take up a lot of time that could be better spent on other endeavours within reborn or other mohaa developments.

The best option would be to prevent bots all together.

But all of this is very open to interpretation on the meaning of 'bots'.

First you have your classic bots are the ones that never really connect and stay with 999 ping. Those are easy to spot.
Then you have your run from server bots, which basically are mohaa clients run on the same machine as the server instance. These are denoted by a very low ping < 3,these will stay in spectator mode. The problem with trying to stop these is when it comes to people hosting their own server or lan and do have the same ip as the game server.
Another type of bot is again an actual mohaa client console but connecting from an admins or clan members pc that has a normal ping, but again stays in spectator mode.

And ofc there are bots spawned into game via the engine which was shown with Leyok POC, but we wouldn't have to worry about this really.

[Razo[R]apiD]

Let's leave alone GameTracker.

We can add detection to MasterServer that checks players ping on the server, and if we detect server filled with fake players, we can move them to a blacklisted list which will be queried from time to time to check them again, and if bots disappeared we can add them back to normal list.

[Todesengel]

@Rapid.. You might want to check the server I mentioned above to see the characteristics of their fake players, because I have seen some with reasonable pings. I've also regularly seen a large number of players for them on gametracker who do not show up in the game, so perhaps they are broadcasting the player list directly to gametracker around or outside the game engine. But I'd think the potential loophole with your idea above, is that unless the blacklist times are substantial - they will simply change the code to schedule the playerstorm appropriately. Automation can deduce automation rather easily....

I had already been thinking of opening my hosting service to gameservers instead of just website/email/backup/vps/xen-desktops, and perhaps even providing scripting/mod services (most providers say you are on your own for that). I was not suggesting this as being something "x-null" was doing. It was a possible business add-on that I was considering outside of x-null. I mentioned it here because I do value the input of the folks that frequent this forum

Along those lines, a while back I did a POC on a "mohaa appliance" that I can send out to people I know that want to play but for a variety of reasons a canned box is best. I just got it "productized/packaged" so it's easily shippable. Not sure if I will proceed with that outside my server/players, but it started as an adjunct to the above.

I'll leave this topic alone, just wanted to raise the issue.

T

[Moh-User]

Let's leave alone GameTracker.

We can add detection to MasterServer that checks players ping on the server, and if we detect server filled with fake players, we can move them to a blacklisted list which will be queried from time to time to check them again, and if bots disappeared we can add them back to normal list.

just been on this server ... https://www.gametracker.com/server_i...194.188:12203/

11 fake players all in spec !! No live activity at all on this server ! Disgracefull really.

If Game Tracker are ignorant to it what can you do :/

Thank you all for your input on this subject, i just wanted to highlight it really.

You do a great job all & thank you

[RyBack]

Does it really affect the whole community ?
I only costs a player about 20 seconds to see that the server is empty. We only got like 2 or 3 servers doing that,
I suggest leaving those servers alone.
But once it occurs alot action should be taken.