I'm looking forward to seeing what becomes of it. I was concerned with Daven's approach to fixing SH because he is trying to do it all via ASM. I'm not saying his metod is bad, but I think it will be a difficult approach as opposed to using c\C++ like RR and I have been using to making this patch.
Since this user created a custom downloader for SH, I would imagine he has a good understanding (atleast the basics) in programming, reverse Engineering and I would be interested to see if he comes out with more goodies for SH.
Its great to see and I dont have the ability to understand the approach or solution of the different solutions but was so out of the blue, the bottom line we are going to end up with 3 solutions instead of none
I say three as in Reborn, MOHAAC and now this - I say MOHAAC as it does work great job downloading maps and mods considering it was mainly anticheat........
For me I am not siding in any one project just loving the dev work that has gone in from all camps for these old games and hope to be using and playing with all !!
Yeh their will be pro's and cons for all camps and hope all camps can interact to share solutions to work around issues and all enhance their solutions - their will have to be some degree to allow the likes of anticheat to support the different solutions and by the looks all completely done from different angles........
Great work all and greatly appreciated many thanks
MOHAA and MOHSH reboots like EA could never do
MMDL client side only now released and Supporting Spearhead and Breakthrough and MOHAA release on hold as Reborn Client patch pending - MMDL Is a Automap downloader but can also support mods in the future.
MOHAAC Anticheat and auto downloader Client side only - currently only supporting MOHAA but planned for Spearhead also
Reborn Client Anticheat and auto downloader MOHAA support only not released - Date unknown
My Concerns are MOHAAC is about to go multi MOH support - MMDL already is.
So from point of view MMDL is on hold pending Reborn Client for MOHAA release.
The Point being I think MMDL Should support MOHAA but I think he awaits the Reborn Client IMO.
My view is that X-null was to home in on all these excellent talents but now we have 3 versions this does not help the MOHAA / MOHSH community
We now have end playing user clients having files from all 3 camps - and multi auto download solutions
Its now becoming a mess - players have so many versions its getting complicated.......
My dream would be Reborn / MOHAAC / MMDL all in one version...........
IMO MMDL should release MOHAA support as is now and not wait for Reborn patch
Then its up to those factions to work together to build a single universal solution that can be played and supported by the mass
to be honest and in my opinion xNull has set bad priorities, and its also not open to other developers.
Looking at my poll I posted (2 years ago ?) what people see as a priority in the patch, the 2 most voted anticheat and autodownload have been released meanwhile by mohaac and mmdl, while things that voted low priority (scripting, admin features) are released in the xnull patch.
Talented and genius developers we had here onboard (okidoki, hummingbird, simon etc. ) have disappeared. Which developer who calls himself developer would be interested in only threoretical bla to be honest ?
Okidoki was never going to actively develop anything for this project. He just wanted share his knowledge. I can't say anything about Hummingbird, Simon or others. I think they just moved on to something more appealing to them, and in my opinion if they really wanted they could always ask for more possibilities to actively develop anything connected with the project. Some people wanted to start something on their own (for example Tommaso with his own version of gamex wrapper derived from early Reborn releases) and I don't have any problem with it. We even talked few times with Tommaso about creating plugin system for other wrappers.
I can understand Heatsinkbods concerns. There are new people popping up with enough skill to create something for this game, and again I don't have any problem with this fact. However, I always invite them here, because I believe that we gathered a lot of ideas and information over here (on public threads as well as "Dev Boards") and that this way everyone can benefit and maybe set some common goals or at least share stuff.
I wouldn't say that we've set bad priorities, in my opinion they are just different. The project started as pure server-side patch, and our goal was to do as much as we can do "server-side" so every player can benefit from the patch without installing anything. It's hard to say: "OK. We've done everything we could, now lets move on to client-side" because there always will be some flaws that need to be fixed and new crash methods were (and are) one of them.
We've just reached a point where we can focus more on client-side, but it still doesn't mean we can forget about server-side.
If this was a bad direction, we may as well tell Daven to stop his efforts as he also wants to go purely server-side with his SH patch.
According to me, we've done things in proper order. We've set up a strong fundaments for everything else that can be done client-side.
There are some concerns as Heatsinkbod pointed out, but I'd say - let there be 3 or 4 or even 8 ways of downloading content for MoHAA.
Players will end up using the best one anyway after some time, and it doesn't have to be our in-built support coming with client-side patch. After all, we want them to use the best solutions available. I don't see this as a competition of any sort.
We're not done with client-side, there are other ways of downloading content? Fine! Let players use them. If we come up with our solution they will decide whether they want to switch or not. They will have time to test other solutions, we'll be able to see what works and what not, what is practical and what not.
If they end up using something else... well we still have a very solid server-side patch that we can still focus on.
But still, client-side patch is a patch - something that will address more issues than just auto-downloading. We have a solid server-side part, which when integrated will enforce 1.12 patch on players who will want to play on 1.12 servers.
MMDL is great, and I don't see a problem if it's going to be released for MoHAA as well. It will compete somehow with MoHAAC. Steve will have to support new binaries in his MoHAAC because if he won't, people won't use MMDL (why would they want to bother with switching binaries when MOHAAC also allows autodownloading?).
It will also come with some drawbacks I pointed out at TMT - Central database. If your custom map or mod is not in this DB, you won't get the mod downloaded. When DB dies, MMDL stops working. If there's a configuration file where you can set DB link, user will have to create his own DB or will be responsible for changing the links which is almost the same as downloading by hand.
If the link will be configurable for server admins, it will be the same as first version of MMDL (probably using 2 sources - MOHAAAA DB and server's DB link).
And if it's going to support mods, every single version of the same mod will need to be added to MOHAAAA DB, because if I change a single texture in a mod file to my custom one, MMDL would download version from DB and not the one I have on my server. This is also the case for maps if someone added something but left the same name.
(until some kind of checksum will be introduced which as I remember was suggested by James).
If we'll finish client-side patch, we'll also need to cooperate with Steve to make it MOHAAC compatible as MOHAAC is now a client-side standard (the same as Reborn is for server-side) or only focus on public servers (reducing user base)
To sum up - release MMDL for MoHAA and add MOHAAC support for it, but don't consider it as a patch replacement, because it only adds a single feature to the game.
We try to have more general approach and we see the project as a whole integrated patch where everything must fit, and such approach takes more time to develop.
I totally agree with RR. I don't think it's competition, and even if it were, it doesn't matter. We've been working on this patch for a while. And I guess it's nice to see talented programmers come late than never. I spoke to Vantec, and he's actually very fond of our patch and I wouldn't be surprised if it even peaked his interest in starting his downloader. I think vuurvliegs downloader framework (what the patch is based off of) is the first working AA downloader available. I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing others until after his.
Anywho, I like seeing different work and I'll tell you right now I look at the site statistics and filters daily, and we have been getting more and more users on these forums than before.
Hi yeh dont get me wrong I am not complaining that we will end up with 3 downloaders when we had none and yeh its not a competition, all the projects are to help enhance and keep the game a live.
I think my frustration is that Reborn client is not out their now
For MMDL he seems very open to the project but that's not for me to say, he said he will pop over here soon.
I understand the overlap in features across MMDL Reborn / MOHAAC and again in some ways my frustration again not complaining but kind of now think that perhaps if the time scales of when you hope to release the client are to far away perhaps and if so then perhaps I think if you have to much to do including the autodownloader then I would say maybe review MMDL / MOHAAC to bundle all into client and work together.
IMO MMDL should I Hope be released for MOHAA as soon as possible to help keep the game alive and then review the solutions as a whole to see which is the best solution for each and then bundle into a single client release I know I made that sound simple
I know MOHAAC approach is different in many ways and not every one likes it at the same time not every one likes the server side patch in some ways - many dont like the blinking and it is complicated at present because they have all the different options for antiwh but the good thing is they have choice and its very flexible.
With Reference to the Database - yep at present its a single point of failure which is not good, for MMDL he has a CVAR to point elsewhere and no it does not download from game server.
I working on some form of alternative long term hosting for the Database to preserve it just have not yet found the best solution - an example would be Say Time Machine website records your site to a degree so if it disappears it holds the pages in history but does not host files and databases so I am kind of looking at the likes of a cloud solution where in the future it would not vanish because someone stopped paying for the hosting................
Please dont take any of may thoughts as a dig its just my opinion every ones efforts are truly appreciated but some times I think peoples views should be aired but I do so for the good of the game and all the communities
Last edited by heatsinkbod; May 6th, 2013 at 06:19 AM.
Reborn Client / MOHAAC / MMDL
Reply With Quote
![Razo[R]apiD's Avatar](image.php?s=f6ba591d9f24a575ae70f37285a7e248&u=3&dateline=1275677155 "Razo[R]apiD's Avatar")
