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Thread: Patch Progress

  1. #421
    Developer RyBack's Avatar
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    BTW, the main reason Reborn src isn't open source, is because coders can modfy each version of the gamex86 wrapper to be custom to their server; and reborn would lose it's functionality; because there would then be different types of Reborn, instead of the 1 stable version that every server owner uses.
    I already talked with RR about why can't NightFall be closed source,

    It's obvious, reborn has gpl code inside, thus it must be gpl too, *legally* ppl *could* force the release of reborn's source code publicly.

  2. #422
    Über Prodigy & Developer Razo[R]apiD's Avatar
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    Hi guys, sorry for the late response. There is a lot of things to unpack here so I guess my answer can be a bit long. I'll do my best to structure it and hopefully address all the things you guys mentioned.


    First of all - I'm really sorry for letting you down

    Things didn't go the way I wished they would, and I lived in a delusion myself, believing in my ability to stretch myself to please everyone.
    What I mean by that is that:
    a) when I promised something, there was no bullshit on my side. It was honest and I really believed in what I promised and it was my genuine will to act on that
    b) I really believed that I can fulfill all my responsibilities and still maintain steady pace of patch development because it was my hobby

    I underestimated the transition from university graduate into a full-blown adulthood and unfortunately school doesn't teach us how to maintain a healthy work-life balance...

    That being said, I'd like to move on and address some of the points mentioned earlier.

    1.
    So, from what I understand, the main reason for the Reborn Project being closed source is to not give important info
    to people who make cheats, so they can't bypass the serverside protections.
    There are few reasons:

    - some protections are bypassable clientside, or could be worked-around if we people could learn about detection schemes the patch uses
    - community fragmentation (many forks with different changes)
    - server-side cheats

    Some of the reasons are more serious than others and most of the problems except for community fragmentation could be fixed.

    2.
    I know you have access to the source, but you are making NightFall, another project with another name
    What will happen with Reborn once you are done porting all features to NighFall?
    What will happen with all the serverside and clientside stuff Razor never got to release?
    What will happen with this forum, (known as the Reborn forum)
    What will be the next step for server admins? (99% of mohaa servers are using the Reborn patch right now)
    I don't have a problem with Reborn being released with changes made by RyBack. It can be as well NightFall source-code released under Reborn name.
    I think I talked with RyBack about this a little bit already.

    I released all the source code (server-side, client-side + server/client bridge) 11 months ago to a group of 9 people, so if train hits me, they can carry the torch.

    The forum will stay, and I don't know anything about it being removed? Maybe James can speak here, because he is the owner of the forum and domains.

    3.
    Would be very nice to see a "realistic" roadmap for the near future of Reborn and NighFall
    Maybe there will be one created, but keep in mind, that a roadmap is a map with many roads that get us to a destination, but it does not specify time.
    If people need a timeframe, then it's a project with a gantt chart, and we don't have enough manpower to go this way, at least not now seeing how things go.

    4.
    Eh, like there is sense in this discussion, reborn sucks, that's why community shrinks
    Well.. there are brand new games backed by big corporations that die much faster and suck more. I think that Reborn is successful in the end and it serves it's purpose,
    no matter what code quality it has. We were younger, less experienced (looking back with fresh perspective) and maybe it sucks today, but I guess it's because we could learn from it in the process
    and now we have much better knowledge of the engine and inner-workings of the game, so by definition it will suck a bit.

    Also - tools are getting better with each year which helps a lot doing more work in less time, so we tend to look at (now simple) things from the past as ancient.

    5
    OK. Perhaps we need to have an official suggestion/newFeatureRequest list. That way anyone can submit requests, see if they are approved or if not why, and track the status of those requests.
    NightFall has it. How many new requests are there? Are people interested at all?
    What about OpenMoHAA? It's open source. How many people actively contribute?

    I hope you get my point, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's not that easy with projects like that, unfortunately...


    5.
    At this point I can go either way (open source or closed source), but there are other Dev's on here, that can commit to Reborn as well. It's not just RR, Ley0k, Ryback, or I.
    ^^^ This

    Please take a look at this forum section: https://www.x-null.net/forums/forums/88-Reborn-Projects

    It was created 7 years ago as an attempt to get more people involved in things that support Reborn Project, so me and James didn't have to maintain everything just by ourselves.
    Many things have changed since then, but the general idea of getting more people involved in different projects that support community as a whole still holds up.

    I'd like to thank everyone for all their help. You know who you are.

    Also - I don't take anything personal, and please don't take my response that way as well.
    I understand that frustration or heated discussions pop up and it's a good sign, because it means that people still care.


    I can't promise you anything at this point that requires timed schedule, but we can talk about it and brainstorm the best possible course for further development.

    What are your suggestions, ideas, hopes? Maybe we can share the workload?

  3. #423
    Developer RyBack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razo[R]apiD View Post
    Hi guys, sorry for the late response. There is a lot of things to unpack here so I guess my answer can be a bit long. I'll do my best to structure it and hopefully address all the things you guys mentioned.


    First of all - I'm really sorry for letting you down

    Things didn't go the way I wished they would, and I lived in a delusion myself, believing in my ability to stretch myself to please everyone.
    What I mean by that is that:
    a) when I promised something, there was no bullshit on my side. It was honest and I really believed in what I promised and it was my genuine will to act on that
    b) I really believed that I can fulfill all my responsibilities and still maintain steady pace of patch development because it was my hobby

    I underestimated the transition from university graduate into a full-blown adulthood and unfortunately school doesn't teach us how to maintain a healthy work-life balance...

    That being said, I'd like to move on and address some of the points mentioned earlier.

    1.


    There are few reasons:

    - some protections are bypassable clientside, or could be worked-around if we people could learn about detection schemes the patch uses
    - community fragmentation (many forks with different changes)
    - server-side cheats

    Some of the reasons are more serious than others and most of the problems except for community fragmentation could be fixed.

    2.


    I don't have a problem with Reborn being released with changes made by RyBack. It can be as well NightFall source-code released under Reborn name.
    I think I talked with RyBack about this a little bit already.

    I released all the source code (server-side, client-side + server/client bridge) 11 months ago to a group of 9 people, so if train hits me, they can carry the torch.

    The forum will stay, and I don't know anything about it being removed? Maybe James can speak here, because he is the owner of the forum and domains.

    3.


    Maybe there will be one created, but keep in mind, that a roadmap is a map with many roads that get us to a destination, but it does not specify time.
    If people need a timeframe, then it's a project with a gantt chart, and we don't have enough manpower to go this way, at least not now seeing how things go.

    4.


    Well.. there are brand new games backed by big corporations that die much faster and suck more. I think that Reborn is successful in the end and it serves it's purpose,
    no matter what code quality it has. We were younger, less experienced (looking back with fresh perspective) and maybe it sucks today, but I guess it's because we could learn from it in the process
    and now we have much better knowledge of the engine and inner-workings of the game, so by definition it will suck a bit.

    Also - tools are getting better with each year which helps a lot doing more work in less time, so we tend to look at (now simple) things from the past as ancient.

    5


    NightFall has it. How many new requests are there? Are people interested at all?
    What about OpenMoHAA? It's open source. How many people actively contribute?

    I hope you get my point, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's not that easy with projects like that, unfortunately...


    5.


    ^^^ This

    Please take a look at this forum section: https://www.x-null.net/forums/forums/88-Reborn-Projects

    It was created 7 years ago as an attempt to get more people involved in things that support Reborn Project, so me and James didn't have to maintain everything just by ourselves.
    Many things have changed since then, but the general idea of getting more people involved in different projects that support community as a whole still holds up.

    I'd like to thank everyone for all their help. You know who you are.

    Also - I don't take anything personal, and please don't take my response that way as well.
    I understand that frustration or heated discussions pop up and it's a good sign, because it means that people still care.


    I can't promise you anything at this point that requires timed schedule, but we can talk about it and brainstorm the best possible course for further development.

    What are your suggestions, ideas, hopes? Maybe we can share the workload?
    RESPECT <3

    About your first point, could you pm me or perhaps add to the private git repo of reborn source what specific parts shall remain closed source no matter what (and preferably why) ?

    I plan to port NF to mohaa, and so security fixes and other stuff must be existing, so the opensource code base is there + all possible closed source fixes and important stuff from reborn will be there.

    For point 2, I made it ready to rename NightFall into reborn in just that case, if you want to completely rename reborn project to NightFall, np, you do you

    Btw, I also kinda get the shock after graduations, most ppl already say "I had more free time in uni". Although I doubt it, I hope I could manage after uni somehow.

    All in all, you're awesome RR <3 no worries fam we'll all keep supporting mohaa as much as we can (including ya ofc). Don't worry about this thread it's just us trying to prevent stagnation of this project as much as possible.

  4. #424
    Administrator James's Avatar
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    In addition to what RR posted above with regards to getting more people involved in the Reborn project, I have created a Project timeline (kind of) along with the ability for the community to submit requests or issues they came across. For a while we were using it, but then it broke. Anyway, I wanted to bring more interest in that direction for anyone that wants to help out. Own3mall fixed the issue with the links on the forums and now everyone can participate.

    The idea behind it is pretty self-explanitory, but if you have any suggestions or run into any issues, please submit an issue request in the project section (link is at the top NAV menu)

    From there someone can try and fix it.

    I think what I'd like to see done is the following...

    1. Fix the anti-stufftext protection. Currently it seems like it has many false positives. Purple Elephant suggested a way to fix it, and I think we all agreed that it sounds like a clever idea that would fix that feature permanently. I don't know if RR ever got to fixing it in the source that was shared to Ryback, but I think this would be a pretty easy fix and something that we can do without a lot of hassle..

    2. Fix up the *Nix related issues (get date command, local.player.inventory, and get entity). I believe this was also discussed, but not sure if RR fully implemented the Fix in the src that's shared.

    3. Anti-landshark; better yet, a solid way to check if a player is under ground regardless if they're landsharking or not. There are certain maps you can go under the map. People can't see you or shoot you, but you can shoot them.

    4. Try and optimize the anti-norecoil a bit better. Apparently this flags false negatives, or it just messes with the user experience because it adds too much recoil or causes other glitches??? Not sure, just from what I heard from others.

    5. Last but not least anti-wh; although this will be the toughest thing to fix/optimize and might require a complete restructure of how we do this. There has been discussion in the past about using a neural network that "teaches itself" where users in the map can be seen or can't be seen. It would require a lot of data along with trial and error, but it's possible that it could be exactly the answer to "flawless" antiwh.

    And outside of the points I mentioned above; todes has suggested splitting up Reborn and nightfall. Just to reiterate; 1 would be the "meat" for protection, and the other can focus on "features". I think this might not be a bad idea because once the protection component is stable; we could leave it be and focus on adding features into Nightfall. And leaving nightfall open source would be a good opportunity for others to try and improve the game and share their features; without messing up the protection piece and forking that.

    What are your thoughts?

    BTW, regarding the site, I have no plans on changing or moving anything. At one point I wanted to have xNULL more for development (not strictly just for MOHAA), and then move reborn and the community to the mohreborn domain. My fear of doing that though is it might really kill the traffic and the community base we have here, and I wouldn't want to do that.

  5. #425
    Purple Developer Purple Elephant1au's Avatar
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    I will be setting up a dev environment on my PC ( hopefully this weekend ).

    @RR or @Ryback anything special i should consider or will i be lucky and it compiles first go :P.

    I have some ideas around not just the fixes code wise, but around the way we could manage releases and code development, which i hope should encourage more of our own developers to contribute to the codebase and get some more frequent patch releases.

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  6. #426

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    You guys should use CMake. I'm using CMake on MOHPC library
    Last edited by Ley0k; February 1st, 2020 at 01:09 PM.

  7. #427

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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post

    3. Anti-landshark; better yet, a solid way to check if a player is under ground regardless if they're landsharking or not. There are certain maps you can go under the map. People can't see you or shoot you, but you can shoot them.
    I just put a trigger under the maps to kill players, I did bridge because a-holes would get behind the walls when in 3rd person, then under all ladders on V2, just run the script mohdm3 is a bit harder because the way the ground is tappered in places, but if you add triggers behind the walls and places where they can jump to it works.

    Code:
    level.mapname = getcvar (mapname)
    
    	switch ( level.mapname )
    	{
    	  case "dm/mohdm4":
    		{
            local.trig = spawn trigger_multiple
     	local.trig.origin = ( 484.89 2680 -24 ) // here you set your coordinates
     	local.trig setsize ( -99 -99 -49 ) (  99 99 49 ) // here you have to experiment a bit , to set the hight and lengt of it
     	local.trig setthread assholes
     	//local.trig message " Your Shit Out Of Luck Now" //here you can set your message
     	local.trig delay 0 // here you can set the trigger time when it should react
    	
    	local.trig1 = spawn trigger_multiple
     	local.trig1.origin = ( 830 1749 -24 ) // here you set your coordinates
     	local.trig1 setsize ( -99 -99 -49 ) ( 99 99 49 ) // here you have to experiment a bit , to set the hight and lengt of it
     	local.trig1 setthread assholes
     	//local.trig1 message " Your Shit Out Of Luck Now" //here you can set your message
     	local.trig1 delay 0 // here you can set the trigger time when it should react
    
    	local.trig2 = spawn trigger_multiple
     	local.trig2.origin = ( 1158 3958 -24 ) // here you set your coordinates
     	local.trig2 setsize ( -99 -99 -49 ) ( 99 99 49 ) // here you have to experiment a bit , to set the hight and lengt of it
     	//local.trig2 setthread assholes
     	local.trig2 message " Your Shit Out Of Luck Now" //here you can set your message
     	local.trig2 delay 0 // here you can set the trigger time when it should react  
    		}
    		break
    	  case "obj/obj_team2":
    		{
            local.trig = spawn trigger_multiple
     	local.trig.origin = ( 466 2353 -450 )  // here you set your coordinates
     	local.trig setsize ( -50 -50 -50 ) ( 50 50 0 ) // here you have to experiment a bit , to set the hight and lengt of it
     	local.trig setthread assholes
     	//local.trig message " Your Shit Out Of Luck Now" //here you can set your message
     	local.trig delay 0 // here you can set the trigger time when it should react
    
    	local.trig1 = spawn trigger_multiple
    	local.trig1.origin = ( 362 349 -770 ) 
    	local.trig1 setsize  ( -50 -50 -50 ) ( 50 50 0 )
    	local.trig1 setthread assholes
    	//local.trig1 message " Your Shit Out Of Luck Now" //here you can set your message
    	local.trig1 delay 0
    
    	local.trig2 = spawn trigger_multiple
    	local.trig2.origin = ( 2971 2414 -514 ) 
    	local.trig2 setsize  ( -50 -50 -50 ) ( 50 50 0 )
    	local.trig2 setthread assholes
    	//local.trig2 message " Your Shit Out Of Luck Now" //here you can set your message
    	local.trig2 delay 0
    
    	local.trig3 = spawn trigger_multiple
    	local.trig3.origin = ( 1677 732 -514 ) 
    	local.trig3 setsize  ( -50 -50 -50 ) ( 50 50 0 )
    	local.trig3 setthread assholes
    	//local.trig3 message " Your Shit Out Of Luck Now" //here you can set your message
    	local.trig3 delay 0
    		}
    	  break		
    	  default:
    	  	// error?  ignore?
    end
    	}
    end
    assholes:
    
     local.assholes = parm.other
     wait .5
     local.assholes kill
     
    end

  8. #428
    Administrator James's Avatar
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    Thanks for the share easymeat, and I've seen that script before, but ideally, I'd like to fix it on the engine. I think it's possible to do. Thank you!

  9. #429

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    Thanks for the reply Razor

    I still have some questions

    so, new releases will still be under the "Reborn" name then?
    or you still need to talk a little bit more about that?

    If you keep the name, will SH and BT patches be included as part of Reborn?

    And what will happen with the Reborn "autoupdate" feature?
    will it still work? will it be added to SH/BT?

  10. #430
    Administrator James's Avatar
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    I don't want to make false promises, but between RR & Ley0k's modified wrappers, and Ryback's Nightfall wrapper; I will try to make some time to create a (slimmed down version) of Reborn with the newest fixes. And by slimmed down I mean JUST the serverside fixes. Any feature related additions to the game I will leave in the hands of Ryback.My plan is between using those 3 wrappers, I will try to make Reborn compatible with AA,SH, and BT. It might be difficult since the offsets will be different, but if I use a special technique to search byte patterns instead of specific offsets; and hoping things don't change too much, it should be possible to create fixes that would be universal across those 3 volumes of the game.Once again I don't want to make any false promises, but I want to try and give it a go and see how far I can get with it.

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