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Thread: Patch Progress

  1. #411

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    I can't speak for Razor, but honestly Nightfall might be the next best thing we can stick with.
    Eh, like there is sense in this discussion, reborn sucks, that's why community shrinks, if server owner have choice between hosting server on patch which gives too little nowadays(I know that some of you positive noobs will deny that statement fast, out of blind love), and leaving, he would prefer to play something better than mohaa. Let it die finally and just focus on Nightfall, it have much bigger potential.

    Though, it's like several years too late for discussions like that, community is at the edge of extinction and I believe that when MOHUE comes out it will collapse entirely.
    Last edited by Criminal; January 25th, 2020 at 07:47 AM.
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  2. #412
    Developer Todesengel's Avatar
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    Reborn does not suck, and it most certainly isn't why the community has shrunk. Reborn is the whole reason there is still any community to speak of.

    You do realize that nightfall is nothing more than the functionality of reborn, less the "shouldn't see the light of day" bits, right? If mohaa "{is just left to finally die}", then nightfall dies too.

    Nightfall provides the same features (less the anticheat/serverfix stuff) as reborn, but for SH and BT. It has been ported to AA as well, so it provides the same features (less the ac/fix stuff) there too.

    Where does that leave our beloved reborn? I think it is still critical for mohaa. Without it, yes, mohaa would be dead today.

    You can either expand reborn to include SH and BT, or you can adopt nightfall and use a slimmed down reborn that just provides the anticheat. Given the current state of the code and such, I suspect the latter to be the easiest path.

    I'm getting really tired of hearing how dead mohaa is. I have 10 to 20 players virtually every night, and I'm sure I'm not the top server out there (Merlin/Guardian told me so <heh>).

    MOHUE is an AWESOME project. I wholeheartedly believe it will be fantastically received, as people come into the discord almost every day asking about it. That being said, I don't think it will kill mohaa off. Many of the people left playing mohaa these days actually LIKE the current graphics and gameplay. That's why they keep playing it - the retro feeling. I don't think those people are going to go to MOHUE 'en masse'. I think you will get a lot of new players for MOHUE, far more than mohaa has these days and maybe even more than mohaa ever did have, but the same core mohaa crowd that is still there today likely will still be there after MOHUE. That's my 2 millidollars worth. It's not a zero-sum game.....

  3. #413

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    Reborn itself does not suck, but it has been stuck for the last 6 years. That period of time for a videogame is a whole lifetime, and that for sure sucks.

    Now we have NightFall. RyBack have made an awesome work whit it and is and active project
    I even made 2 feature request (dmmessage event and regex engine) and RyBack added it to the patch in no time
    Why do you think I have so high expectations about Ryback and the future of reborn/nighfall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    I'm getting really tired of hearing how dead mohaa is. I have 10 to 20 players virtually every night, and I'm sure I'm not the top server out there (Merlin/Guardian told me so <heh>).
    A "dead game" doesn't mean that the game has zero players left. Of course there may be some people playing the game, there will always be.
    Within the gaming world a "dead game" is defined as follows:
    - Any Video Game with less than 1000 players on a consistent bases (mohaa barely reach 300 in a good day nowadays). Or.
    - A game that no longer recruit new players
    MOHAA meets both requirements. (not to mention it is completely abandoned by EA games)
    So we can safely say that MOHAA is a "dead game". There is no doubt about that.
    Maybe you @Todes and other people here don't realize that because this is the only game you play, or don't play videogames at all.
    The universe of videogames is bigger than you may think.


    Now, MOHUE is a good thing, but is the Reborn project ready to receive new players comming from it?
    From my point of view, the answer is No.

    Imagine MOHUE is released today.
    Now, put yourself in the place of someone who played MOHAA between 2002-2005 when it was one of the more popular fps games
    It's 2020 you are now an adult, still interested in videogames and you hear about MOHUE
    You check the mohue website and you think "Oh, Thats cool. It brings me back memories"
    You wonder if the old mohaa is still alive
    People on mohue tell you about the Reborn project
    You check the main page (x-null.net/MOH2/)
    You see an old webpage that hasn't been updated in a decade, theres no "news" or "changelog" section
    You check the forums and you only see posts about modding and a post called "Patch Progress"
    You realize the project is stuck and people is wondering about the future of the project
    Your reaction: 😕

    There is still some people playing the game, but nothing that can attract your attention
    Xfire, something that was extremely useful for the mohaa community is now gone, and there is no replacement. (the Xfire shutdown was what really killed mohaa IMO)
    The game is full of cheaters
    There is not even a clientside patch with a basic autodownload feature

    Would you be interested in playing mohaa again? I don't think so
    And that would be the case of an ex mohaa player. Someone younger wouldn't give a shit about this game



    Razor, if you read this, I'm not blaming you (no one does) for not having time to develop this project, That's totally understandable.
    What I'm criticizing is the lack of official information about the status of the reborn project. Like, not even James, who is the founder of this project can give a concrete answer about the near future of the project.
    The lack of communication is a serious issue here.
    James, Razor and Ryback as the heads of Reborn and NighFall should have a deep conversation about this (and the questions I asked on my previous post)
    not to just decide what will happen with the project but to actually do something.

    And for the record. This is like the third or fourth time I'm asking about the status of the project in the last 5 years
    I hope this time something will actually happen.
    And honestly, I don't really care if the code is open or closed source as long it is being actively developed.

  4. #414
    Client Beta Testers Appelpitje's Avatar
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    I totally agree with Zappa, there is no interests from young new players in mohaa. It doesn't have the graphics and gamemodes that they want (Looks at fortnite, and other similar games).
    I'm not even sure if old players would come back to MOHAA for just new features. And yes a new update in the news/site would be awesome, we try our best in MOHUE to do this but it's hard to keep pushing updates.

  5. #415
    Administrator James's Avatar
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    Criminal, I know you're trying to give constructive criticism; and I will say this... It does not suck. It has room for improvement and optimization. I don't disagree with that, but it doesn't suck. You're currently studying computer science, which is great, but if you knew how much more difficult it is to fix something serverside than clientside, I think you would have a better understanding.

    It's always easier to fix something clientside, but it also makes it easier to bypass. The whole reason why we started Reborn is we didn't want to recreate the same issues, so we went about it differently. We just don't have the time to invest into it anymore. It's not that we don't want to finish it. Honestly Reborn has come such a far way already, that this basically became RR's project. I passed down the torch because it was very clear he has exceeded my expectations and he has more knowledge in the area than I do. (No need to be humble here, just stating the obvious).

    I may add to my post, but I just read up to todes response. Still have the rest to read. Anyway; that's my 2 cents.

  6. #416
    Developer Todesengel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appelpitje View Post
    I totally agree with Zappa, there is no interests from young new players in mohaa. It doesn't have the graphics and gamemodes that they want (Looks at fortnite, and other similar games).
    I'm not even sure if old players would come back to MOHAA for just new features. And yes a new update in the news/site would be awesome, we try our best in MOHUE to do this but it's hard to keep pushing updates.
    I understand your point in general, but let me toss out another datapoint. I would bet that on my server, at least once a month, we get a new player who has never seen the game before. They just downloaded it and started playing. There's a full age range there of course, but I believe on average most of the newcomers are 20-somethings. In addition, about every two months, we get a player that we knew from back in 2000-2005 era who hasn't played since but wanted to come back. About 3/4 of these people wind up sticking around and playing regularly.

    Of course it is not getting thousands of new players a day like fortnite, but... in front of my eyes I just don't see the doom and gloom (any more than it already is, of course).

  7. #417

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    Ok, if suck is too big word, let me rephrase it to only: It offers too little nowadays. That's why I and some people stop to host servers, if you are only admin being on your server 24/7 and you have no way to deal with annoying camels and cheaters permanently, and a lot of people still crash somehow your server every x days, then you go away.

    With making reborn open source: whatever man, there will be copy-pasters who won't make shiet even with source and there are prodigy codahs who can end your whole career with one .dll injected while having only Ghidra and VS available. It may be cool last tribute to community, after RR stops being busy and respond in half of year.

    Anyway I really don't see any sense in contributing anything more to reborn unless some of you want to have wider portfolio, or making new discussions like that to demand something, this project digged itself a hole in cemetery a long time ago, I noticed it 3 years ago when I first joined x-null and it cannot contribute anything reliefing. Right? You guys have source, I believe if there would be something good to do you would make it for all of us.

    I would bet that on my server, at least once a month, we get a new player who has never seen the game before.
    Yeah, but this is your 'murican niche, you may get players but others don't have to, few months ago average rotation of people during active hours was 300(?), what it is now?
    Last edited by Criminal; Yesterday at 08:27 AM.
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  8. #418
    Developer Todesengel's Avatar
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    OK. Perhaps we need to have an official suggestion/newFeatureRequest list. That way anyone can submit requests, see if they are approved or if not why, and track the status of those requests.

    Would that help what zappa and criminal are stating?

  9. #419
    Administrator James's Avatar
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    My continued response...
    In terms of Nightfall and MOHUE; majority of the community already supports both projects along with Open MOHAA. I say majority because I'm sure there are some people that are part of that community and not necessarily part of ours, but nonetheless; we're all here for the same reason, and that's to support each other.


    Now I honestly am humbled by everyones concern for Reborn. I get it, it's frusturating, and it's frusturating for me as well. You guy might not understand how much work was required to get to where it is today. Keep in mind this is a closed sourced game, so everything we do has been reversed by hand. Granted over the years more and more of the engine is reversed so now it's probably easier to implement fixes; but unfortunately our "available" time has greatly been cut down.


    Even though Reborn is closed source, most ((if not all?) active) Dev's on these forums have access to the code. Ryback also has access to it; that's how he's able to work on Nightfall. And I recently got Ley0k's modifications for what he's done to Reborn as well. I have shared that code with Ryback, and maybe he can implement some of the features into Nightfall.


    Even if Reborn came to a dead end (let's still hope that's not the case), and the MOHUE team finish up their project; I'd be more than happy to use their code base (with their approval of course) to implement the fixes from Reborn into MOHUE. It's always easier to write fixes using actual open source code; than to manually write detours, asembly, and/or using IP addresses to modify code. It's not ideal, but that's how Reborn was built. That's what we had to work with.


    Also Zappa, I totally understand your concern; and I will admit the communication is tough. For me primarily; there is a 9 hour timezone difference between RR and I. We're both busy most of the day and I sometimes have some time to spare to see what's going on in the forums, but usually I'm not free until after 7PM and by that time I have other house projects and errands to run. I'm not trying to make excuses; it's just priorities have changed. Also, since I passed down the torch to RR with the project; I wouldn't want to overstep him and just say "screw it, I'm making reborn open source so now anyone that wants to work on it from where we left off can do so"... I feel like that would be rude, and I have to honor the hard work RR has put into this. At this point I can go either way (open source or closed source), but there are other Dev's on here, that can commit to Reborn as well. It's not just RR, Ley0k, Ryback, or I.


    I have messaged RR online, and hopefully he can respond to this thread with some more concrete information for you guys.


    Btw, I already told this to Ryback on Discord; if we can get enough of the serverside code reversed I would absolutely LOVE to see AI availability for MP. I'm not talking about jv_bot AI, I'm talking true Counterstrike/Q3 AI bots in MP games. Being able to interact with users in real time. This way servers (even if they're empty), can import bots that other users can play against. I honestly think that feature could bring true life into the game; even if (worst case scenario) cheats still existed.


    Ley0k has already gotten "fake players" loaded into the game serverside. This has been tested and working. I shared that with Ryback. We just need to build onto it and optimize it, but I think it's very possible, and it would be so bad ass to see in servers.


    BTW, the main reason Reborn src isn't open source, is because coders can modfy each version of the gamex86 wrapper to be custom to their server; and reborn would lose it's functionality; because there would then be different types of Reborn, instead of the 1 stable version that every server owner uses.

    Sorry for the long post.

  10. #420

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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    BTW, the main reason Reborn src isn't open source, is because coders can modfy each version of the gamex86 wrapper to be custom to their server; and reborn would lose it's functionality; because there would then be different types of Reborn, instead of the 1 stable version that every server owner uses.
    Either way, it's still better than having it getting leaked and stolen the next day by a malicious person. But I'm sure people wouldn't fork it and add their custom electronjs on top of it (for sure), just take a look at those Linux distributions, different packaging but same Linux kernel I really doubt people would stay away from updates.

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